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There are currently 2 user(s) asking for help via the {{Help me}} template:

Charts recreation

If an article, such as International recognition of Kosovo, uses embedded graphs using the currently-disabled Charts extension, is it appropriate to go through the effort of creating an SVG recreation in something like Gnuplot and using it as a temporary replacement while the graph is not visible?

I am well aware that graphs will be re-enabled once the better Graphs extension goes gold, so I wonder if creating replacements will either cause people to favor the much more involved and tedious process of editing the SVG graph even well after software graphs are re-enabled, and/or if the eventual release of the improved Graphs extension will cause a large surplus on Commons of unused and outdated graphs that have served their purpose as a replacement and now only serve to benefit wikis that do not or still can not use software graphs. Are these risks well-founded or simply paranoia? All things considered, should I continue to try to create interim vector replacements for graphs on articles? Or is it established that I should simply wait for all this to pass? — rae^5e <talk> 12:49, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

Can someone help me understand why this was draftified?

I created this article today and it was draftified. The reason given on my talk page was it needs more sources to establish notability and it has too many problems of language or grammar.

I re-read it and noticed an out of place sentence and an errant word, which I remedied. It has 7 RS (or at least I think it does.) Is there something I'm missing? i know you're a dog (talk) 03:30, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

@Dora the Axe-plorer: See above. Polygnotus (talk) 04:23, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

The OP had replied to them less than two hours before this post. I think Dora will reply to their original inquiry if she's given a fair amount of time to do so, but two hours seems kind of like a short time frame.

Awshort (talk) 04:30, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Indeed. And they have the This user is busy in real life and may not respond swiftly to queries.-template on their talkpage. Polygnotus (talk) 04:34, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Which is why I posted here to see if anyone knows what needs fixing. i know you're a dog (talk) 04:38, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Yeah, I made a few edits already. See the history page here. Polygnotus (talk) 04:39, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Thanks, I see them. Is there anything you see that might prevent it from getting approved if I submit it for review? i know you're a dog (talk) 04:46, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

There is quite a WP:BACKLOG, we got ~2,736 pending AfC submissions. Polygnotus (talk) 05:22, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

I would guess that the main concern is notability and that the grammar thing was an additional checkbox in an automated tool. Address the notability, namely that this article is based on one event and is very fresh (breaking news). Commander Keane (talk) 04:48, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Thanks. It had 7 RS at the time it was moved to draft space; I’m unable to ascertain how I could have established notability further aside from adding more sources that weren’t adding new information. Any ideas? i know you're a dog (talk) 05:00, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

As for the "breaking news" explanation, I think that is weak because the relevant policy language says In principle, all Wikipedia articles should contain up-to-date information. Editors are also encouraged to develop stand-alone articles on significant current events. WP:BREAKING does not say that articles about breaking news should not be created. As for "one event", that relates to WP:BLP1E relating to biographies of people notable for one event. But this draft article is not a biography but rather about an event, and the policy says In such cases, it is usually better to merge the information and redirect the person's name to the event article.. So, the question is whether or not the event of an American citizen being falsely arrested and imprisoned for ten days on an immigration violation that did not happen is a "significant event". I think it is significant. Cullen328 (talk) 05:14, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

@Cullen328 For the record we don't know if the arrest is "false" or "illegal" yet or not. It is pretty easy to get people to say stuff that isn't true, especially vulnerable people, and it is not unlikely that I can get most Americans to say things that aren't true if they believe it will benefit them (or if I talk to them in a harsh accusatory tone). Arrests are rarely "illegal" because any government twists the laws in ways that suit them.

Also we don't really know how important this specific event will be in the grand scheme of things, if we look back after a decade or so. Given the incompetence of certain parts of the US government it is not impossible that Hermosillo will be one out of many, in which case it is probably better to have one article about many cases instead of articles about each individual case (e.g. Detention of Juan Carlos Lopez-Gomez). Polygnotus (talk) 05:16, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Polygnotus, when a United States citizen born and raised in the state of New Mexico is arrested on charges of illegal immigration, then that is ipso facto a false arrest. I did not use the word "illegal". Whether or not it might be a better idea to merge the content in the future should be considered at the future date. Cullen328 (talk) 05:49, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

@Cullen328 See False arrest. If a police officer pressures a vulnerable person into confessing something they didn't do, and then arrests them for it, that isn't necessarily a "false" arrest because a false confession given under pressure by a vulnerable person can be probable cause. And vulnerability isn't always visible or obvious. I am not a lawyer and neither are you. This is not legal advice. Polygnotus (talk) 05:53, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Sorry, @Polygnotus, but the potential future where many US citizens are falsely arrested for being undocumented immigrants, when in fact they are citizens, is not a reason to draftify this article. It is a terrifying thought, though. Also WP:CRYSTALBALL. i know you're a dog (talk) 06:26, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

@Iknowyoureadog I didn't say it was a reason to draftify the draft. potential future Unfortunately this is not the first time something like this happened, and it won't be the last. Polygnotus (talk) 06:30, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Got it, sorry if I misunderstood. And yes, I agree - see Detention of Detention of Juan Carlos Lopez-Gomez. i know you're a dog (talk) 06:31, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

@Iknowyoureadog See Deportation of Americans from the United States and, for example:

https://www.aclusocal.org/en/press-releases/guadalupe-plascencia-us-citizen-unlawfully-detained-ice-wins-settlement

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/01/540903038/u-s-citizen-held-by-immigration-for-3-years-denied-compensation-by-appeals-court

https://www.aclu.org/cases/morales-v-chadbourne

https://www.keranews.org/2016-12-22/you-say-youre-an-american-but-what-if-you-had-to-prove-it-or-be-deported

https://www.texastribune.org/2019/07/23/texas-ice-us-citizen-detained/

https://www.aclufl.org/en/cases/peter-sean-brown-v-richard-ramsay

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/3/31/1649164/-ICE-is-getting-sued-after-detaining-a-U-S-citizen-for-nearly-three-weeks

https://www.aclusocal.org/en/press-releases/us-citizen-unlawfully-detained-immigration-agents-wins-settlement Polygnotus (talk) 06:34, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Oh god. Thank you for linking these. Now excuse me while I scream into the void. i know you're a dog (talk) 06:38, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

@Iknowyoureadog If you want more then there are more. Way more. Polygnotus (talk) 06:39, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Yes, please. Either here or on my talk page. i know you're a dog (talk) 06:40, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

https://www.aclumich.org/en/cases/us-citizen-turned-over-ice-deportation

https://www.aclunc.org/news/civil-rights-groups-sue-ice-unlawful-arrest-and-detention-us-citizen

https://www.courthousenews.com/massachusetts-man-at-heart-of-twisted-citizenship-case/

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article24475174.html

https://deportation-research.buffett.northwestern.edu/us-citizens/ (scroll down a bit for some examples)

https://www.nydailynews.com/2013/12/01/deported-us-citizen-finally-gets-passport-back/

https://www.aclu.org/documents/aclu-memo-interested-persons-regarding-concerns-hr-4437-border-protection-antiterrorism-and lists for example Sharon McKnight

I am too lazy to find more but a bit of Googling and you'll find many more. There must be hundreds or perhaps thousands over the years. Polygnotus (talk) 06:45, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

@Iknowyoureadog I apologize if I made you depressed. Polygnotus (talk) 06:51, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Oh, you didn't. My mother did :) i know you're a dog (talk) 07:00, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Thank you. Gosh. This is quite overwhelming. To work I go! i know you're a dog (talk) 07:01, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Yeah, I would describe it as "fucked up". Polygnotus (talk) 07:06, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

@Cullen328 I agree that it's quite significant, and if I may, quite disturbing. That's why I am somewhat perturbed that it was draftified for a reason that I cannot ascertain. i know you're a dog (talk) 06:22, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Iknowyoureadog, I have moved the article back to main space. Cullen328 (talk) 06:31, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

I just saw that, thank you so much @Cullen328. You also made some great improvements; thank you for that. i know you're a dog (talk) 06:32, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Linking to redirects and WP:NOPIPE

Hi folks!! Is it normal to link to redirect. This is on the Joseph Lister article. For example a link was made President of the Royal Society that links to the redirect, where it was formerly President of the Royal Society. It was removed as part of a WP:NOPIPE copyedit. But is it valid to connect to a redirect now from a article link. I know at one time you couldn't link to a redirect, but has it changed. Is that a valid link. Thanks. scope_creep^Talk 15:59, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

It is normal to link to redirects. WP:NOPIPE says It is generally not good practice to pipe links simply to avoid redirects. StarryGrandma (talk) 17:18, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Do separate pages documenting new features in software releases violate WP:NOTCHANGELOG?

Hi all,

Ran across a bunch of pages [1] here which seem to extensively document new features in Windows. Vista seems especially prevalent, with 4 whole pages dedicated just to documenting various additions. Given WP:NOTCHANGELOG, should these pages be deleted?

Thanks for your help.

Rcfische2 (talk) 22:02, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

No, these pages should not be deleted, and WP:NOCHANGELOG says that a summary of development is fine which is what these are. Maybe look at an actual changelog, the level of detail is roughly a thousand times higher. Polygnotus (talk) 22:08, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Appreciate the response. Can definitely see that now, still, many of the pages read like Microsoft puffery. (And 4 pages + the main article for Vista seems unjustifiable and likely to lead to content duplication). Rcfische2 (talk) 22:24, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

@Rcfische2 Can you give specific examples of this WP:PUFFERY? I am not opposed to adding a banner to each Microsoft related article that explains how to install Linux, but some people might disagree with that. Polygnotus (talk) 22:27, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

As a representative example - Management features new to Windows Vista has lines like:

- "In addition, snap-ins present their UI in a different thread than that in which the operation runs, thus keeping the snap-in responsive, even while doing a computationally intensive task." which is not supported by a citation and seems to just document internal optimizations.

- "Windows Vista includes over 2400 options for Group Policy" followed by a detailed (and uncited) explanation of changes in the GPO architecture.

- More generally, the article cites 37 sources, 28 are Microsoft authored and 9 are independent. Of the 9 independent sources, 1 directly cites a Microsoft representative, 1 is from a Microsoft MVP, and 3 others are from books for Windows users/admins.

While I struggled a bit to find clearly promotional language, taken together, the length of the articles, their massive reliance on primary sources, and their detailed coverage of features which, from my (admittedly non-expert) perspective, seem very minor, all give the impression of undue coverage.

I do think a very aggressive trim of at least the Vista articles, with a final goal of merging their content together into Features new to Windows Vista is in order.

Per the second point, that'd definitely spark an edit war over which distro to recommend.

Rcfische2 (talk) 23:03, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

@Rcfische2 Meh, I'd leave it be. If people decide to try out Vista then that'll encourage them to switch to *nix sooner. According to the pageview statistics basically no one reads those articles anyway. Polygnotus (talk) 05:06, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

Original code in Red–black tree

I am concerned that the code in this article was rewritten by a single user, and it appears to be their original creation. While I do appreciate the fact that it is significantly simpler and easier to follow than the prior version, another user and I have raised concerns about its correctness and I've tried discussing with the author on the talk page. I think ideally the article should cite an existing source as a known correct implementation, ideally a peer-reviewed source, so it is easy to compare the code against another version for correctness (even if it isn't exactly the same). I am wondering how best to proceed here? Tombob51 (talk) 01:29, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

@Tombob51 I would recommend posting on WP:VPT. Polygnotus (talk) 04:59, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

Millicent Fawcett

Reference number 48 is wrong - please fix - I am confused. Sorry and thanks. Srbernadette (talk) 06:14, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

It is fixed. Polygnotus (talk) 06:19, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

According to our list of reliable and not so reliable sources, the Telegraph is not reliable for transgender-related issues, so I removed that bit. Polygnotus (talk) 06:22, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

Adding an external link

Hi How do I add an external link to a school's archive. This is an official site, but open to the public. DBlez (talk) 13:46, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

Hi! Please see Wikipedia:External links#How to link and feel free to ask further if something is unclear. A common mistake is to put an external link in the body of an article – make sure to put it in the external links section. Perception312 (talk) 14:32, 27 April 2025 (UTC)